Ordain LDS Women: The Road to Apostasy Part 2

General Conference for October 2013 has ended. It was one of the most powerful conferences for me that I can remember. Jordyn and I were able to go to the Sunday morning session of which I can honestly say was an unbelievable experience. Each and every message of that session was so steeped in doctrine for me. I cringe a little in making that statement because each session is incredible and eternal principles taught but that session was special for me.

Throughout the entire conference, there were many messages regarding the eternal nature of the priesthood and the manner in which revelation is received. The movement called "Ordain LDS Women" has been lobbying for entrance to the Priesthood Session for months. They sent their note to Church HQ requesting tickets as I previously noted in my first post. However, as everyone else knew what would happen, but those enthralled in this agitation movement, they were rejected at the doors to the Priesthood Session. They previously requested tickets to the session but were turned away by their local leaders as well as those at Church HQ after their petition.. They vowed to continue to meet before the session and march together to the doors to stand in the Standby Line, awaiting entrance.

The group of 120 or so met at a park, sang a hymn, had a prayer and words of "agitation" before their march to Temple Square. The group was met by a Church spokeswoman who told the group they would not be admitted as it was a meeting for the strengthening men and boys of the priesthood. 

The group's spokeswoman, Kate Kelly, stated that she was disappointed they were not admitted. She even went so far as to say that she truly believed that she would be admitted to the priesthood session. It's stunning to think that after all the times she and the group have been told no to their ticket requests that they arrogantly thought that they would be allowed in. 

Kelly stated, "But in that moment at the door, facing that man, I realized I did not. I had no doubt in my mind that we would be let in. I walked to the Tabernacle filled with hope, faith and (perhaps delusional) optimism. I truly thought if they could see our sincerity and our tears and our pain, in person, they would respond to our faithful pleas with equal measures of love."

I feel sad for the followers of Ms. Kelly as I think they feel they are to something new. Most seem to be very young and equipped with the philosophies of the world in their arguments. However, I beleive that Ms. Kelly knows exactly what she is doing and has a full-blown agenda behind her movement. It's too bad that so many are being duped by her and are being led away from the truth. 

If anyone honestly listened to the talks in General Conference this weekend, they would have heard the answer to their "alleged" question. The answer is NO! However, I don't believe that Ms. Kelly or her close allies heard the message. They've twisted scripture to fit their agenda the whole way. That point was even addressed in conference.

Contention and counseling the Lord only comes from one place; and it isn't from the Holy Spirit of God. Laman and Lemuel were full of counseling their father, who was their prophet and chosen one of God. Where did it get them? It's a sad situation but within 10 years, Ms Kelly and many of those who support her will be outside the church looking in unless they change their hearts and turn them to the Lord. There is no other way. 

Ordain Women: The Road To Apostasy

I recently stumbled upon a Facebook page entitled Ordain Women. I had heard that there was a movement by female members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to petition Pres. Monson to ordain women to the priesthood. This is similar to another group of women who put on a "demonstration" when they wore pants to church instead of a dress or skirt.

I went to the Ordain Women page to see what all the fuss was about. It states clearly that their objective is to demand that women be ordained to the priesthood. This is what it says in their Description:

Ordain Women aspires to create a space for Mormon women to articulate issues of gender inequality they may be hesitant to raise alone. As a group we intend to put ourselves in the public eye and call attention to the need for the ordination of Mormon women to the priesthood.

My initial thought in reading the posts on this page is one of feeling sorry for these folks. It's mainly women who are posting that they want to be ordained to the priesthood but there are a few men who are posting support for the movement.

In reading the posts, it seems that there is a great deal of confusion or a great deal of deceit going on with the supporters. Why? Because they all claim that they are just asking a question. I asked all of them what question are they asking and no one responded. They all deflected in their responses. You'll see that they all say the same thing in that they prayed and fasted about this and they received personal revelation that they are to be a part of Ordain Women.

Take careful notice that they never answer the question straight out: Are you demanding to be ordained to the priesthood? Not one of them ever answered that question. But in being part of the Ordain Women agenda they are specifically demanding to be ordained to the priesthood. I'm stunned that not one of them would own up to that fact.

What is disappointing to see regarding this whole movement is that people don't really understand the gospel. I wonder if any of them have ever read verse 7 in the 3rd chapter of Amos.  We know that God works through His prophet and apostles when He wants to reveal something to the world.

Supporters use scripture to try to justify their cause. They throw out, "ask and ye shall receive". I'm not sure how that pertains to counseling the Lord regarding revelation. They throw out the 9th AofF in support of their cause. We know though that when the Lord has something for us to know that he will tell His prophet and we will all know at the same time.

Supporters state that Joseph Smith had questions and we wouldn't have the church without him asking questions. Well, I'm not sure how they can equate the 2 as the same thing. The Lord's gospel and church wasn't on he earth when Joseph went to the grove and asked sincerely for wisdom and knowledge. Now that we have the gospel and church restored to the earth, we also have knowledge of how the Lord leads His church.

This whole movement is one of arrogance and ignorance. Here is the letter that they submitted when they put in a request for women to get tickets for General Priesthood Meeting. I'll let you decipher the tone of the letter and how condescending it is towards God and Christ. Take note at how this movement twists the words of the Lord's anointed to try to make it sound like their cause is just.

One also needs to know that many asked their bishop's and stake president's for tickets and were told no. Their take on being told no is that the local leaders are ready for their movement yet and are wrong for not giving them tickets. Yep, you can't make this stuff up as it is all documented in their posts.

As I read through the posts of the leaders of this movement, I couldn't help but be reminded of the words of the Lord when He said in Isaiah 55:

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my  ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

We don't always know the why to things on this earth but that is the purpose, we are supposed to walk by faith. We are here to be tested, to see if we would be obedient to the things we are commanded.

I wonder if the supporters of Ordain Women have ever read the following verse,

10 Wherefore, brethren, seek not to counsel the Lord, but to take counsel from his hand. For behold, ye yourselves know that he counseleth in wisdom, and in justice, and in great mercy, over all his works.

Maybe it doesn't apply to them because it just states "brethren" and not women as well.

I find it disconcerting that there are so many who claim membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to be temple recommend holders, to support the First Presidency and Quorum of 12 Apostles are so blinded by the subtle craftiness of men that they don't know they are in the mists of darkness and have actually let go of the Iron Rod.

We know that when we let go of that rod, we are at the mercy of whatever Lucifer wants to tempt us with and are manipulated by the philosophies of the world. These philosophies are not of God. Counseling the Lord regarding His gospel is not bringing forth righteous fruit. Leading your families away from God and Christ by claiming that you have received personal revelation that now is the time for women to receive the priesthood is not what God wants for any of His children. He's provided the way for us to return to Him. If and when the Lord wants to ordain women to the priesthood, He will let us know. Not the other way around.

There is no question being asked by Ordain Women. Simply put: they are demanding that women be ordained to the priesthood because they have received personal revelation stating now is the time.

Run from this group as fast as you can. Here are their false prophetesses:

April Young Bennett
Debra Jenson
Kate Kelly
Hannah Wheelwright

ps, just read this from Lori Winder. This is not something to embrace but to denounce and educate on how revelation works.

How Does One Decipher The Truth?

I read this article by Ms. Sheffield and actually felt sorry for her. Sorry because she feels so betrayed by her former religion that she felt the need to write an Op-Ed piece with only bits of truth to defend where she currently stands.

Ms. Sheffield states, " the family-values facade applies only if you stay in the fold. Former Mormons know the family estrangement and bigotry that often come with questioning or leaving the church." Does this apply to ALL former Mormons or just the ones lists? I have no doubt that parents are deeply troubled when one of their children decides to let go of the iron rod and move to the large and spacious building. Just ask Lehi and Alma how they felt about their children and the choices they made. But there never stopped being loving and kind parents teaching their wayward children through the end of their earthly lives. Is this the estrangement that Ms. Sheffield speaks?


She then writes, "The church I was raised in values unquestioning obedience over critical thinking. This caused trauma and cognitive dissonance when I questioned church doctrine and official history." I don't even know what unquestioning obedience over critical thinking is since all I have ever done my whole life is ask questions about the doctrines of the church. Is following the commandments the Lord has established unquestioning obedience? 


Could Ms. Sheffield give us examples of how this is taught in the LDS church and what she deems critical thinking? I always hear self-proclaimed intellectuals use this terminology against those who don't believe as they. I wonder what makes her critical thinking better than those who don't come to her conclusion?


Ms. Sheffield continues, "I struggled after realizing that Mormonism’s claims about anthropology, history and other subjects contradict reason and science." I don't know what she is talking about since she offers no examples.


She then tells us that the LDS church has irrational claims without offering any specifics or what is wrong about what she is thinking about.


Ms. Sheffield then proclaims without evidence, "It also stifles efforts to openly question church pronouncements, labeling such behavior as satanic." Are we just supposed to accept her assertion that what she claims is true and correct? Have any citation for this assertion? Please?

She then goes on to distort what the Smithsonian actually stated. However, based on what she stated can we know by what means the Smithsonian proved the Book of Mormon isn't a factual document? We have the book don't we?

Ms. Sheffield tells us that she imploded spiritually while at BYU because of facts and details she doesn't tell us. What facts are outside official church curriculum? What's the definition of a "high-ranking" Mormon leader? Why code it in those terms instead of just indicating the calling the man held?

What are all the questions you have Ms. Sheffield? What questions do you have that you don't have an adequate answer? You do realize that the prophet doesn't have all the answers to everything, right? I believe one of the Articles of Faith speaks of continued revelation and know that more answers will come forth with a knowledge of all of it when the Lord returns to the earth.

Of course the gospel is highly centralized and there is an easy answer for that: the gospel is one truth, not a bunch of philosophies of men mingled with scripture. There is one doctrine that many people like Ms. Sheffield don't understand: Revelation comes from the top down, not the bottom up. There will never be a doctrinal change to the gospel because of a grass-roots effort. 

It's God's heaven that we will be returning to, not the one that we mere mortals conjure up in our minds to fit into earthly precepts that aren't true or correct. 

I'm sorry your parents shut you out of their home for 5 years but I also have an idea that we'd get a different story from them if they were asked to respond.

What's a dissident Mormon? One who wishes for the Lord to change His doctrine to fit in with theirs? I highly doubt that will happen. Maybe there is good reason for someone being counseled to get a divorce. Not all members of the LDS church are allowed in the temple for weddings, it's just not non-members. Homosexuality will never be condoned since it has no place in the doctrine of the gospel of Christ. This isn't just limited to the LDS church, right? Do you envision a heaven where homosexuality abounds?

The church finances are audited every single year. What do you want to know about the finances that you don't know? Can you detail what anti-women doctrine is and where it can be found? 

Having sat in church councils for many years I've never seen happen to anyone what you claim with this nugget: " Perhaps someday the church will not excommunicate, fire and demote people who want honest, church-wide dialogue about Mormon history and doctrine."

Maybe a specific list of what you want talked about from Mormon history and doctrine would be helpful. Most of intellectual lightweights don't know what deep, hidden doctrine you want to be discussed in every Sunday School, Relief Society and Priesthood class.

I don't know of any LDS member who compares Joseph Smith to Martin Luther. Every member I know considers Smith a prophet of God, just like Moses, Adam, Noah, Abraham and the many others who God called to lead His people.

You might want to remember what it was you were to receive when you were baptized. It goes a long way in helping people decipher truth from fiction. I know it works for me.

The Love Dare

I recently have been reading and following the book Love Dare. I briefly tried it once before but quit. This go round I am finding it to be much more helpful and insightful for me. It truly has become a "love dare" and have truly come to understand that I can only change myself and open my heart to love if it is my choice. No one can do it for me and I definitely can't do it for anyone else.

I'm wondering if anyone else has taken this dare and if so, what were your results.

Liz Cheney: Obama Putting America on Path to Decline - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

Liz Cheney: Obama Putting America on Path to Decline - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

I am enthralled with Liz. She tells it just like it is. She knows her stuff and doesn't let the Progressive lies slide through unchallenged.

It's awesome to watch her on the Sunday morning shows when she calmly dismantles the BS from the MSM representatives that carry the water for the Dems.

And, we are related through our Vincent line.

� A New Birth of Freedom - Big Government

A great read for all --- especially my Progressive friends and relatives.

Now is the time to get organized and get involved.

Call or write your representatives in Congress often.

Let them hear from you constantly.

Don't let them give you their standard BS answers. Demand specifics and don't let up until you get them.

The tidal wave is rolling --- are you going to drown or ride the wave?

Special Report w/ Bret Baier - FOXNews.com

Folks, if you have not had a chance to watch this interview yet, please do so.

Take notice how Obama has a very difficult time of answering some very simple yes or no questions.

Obama is a liar and knows exactly what he is doing with this bill.

Get involved and call your Representative today! Call numerous times to get through and voice your outrage at this power grab.

Peggy Noonan: Now for the Slaughter - WSJ.com

Peggy Noonan: Now for the Slaughter - WSJ.com

It's great to see Peggy with some common sense on this issue.

Obama is horrible and should have been vetted by the mainstream press BEFORE the election.

How is that HOPE and CHANGE working out for everyone?

I would encourage everyone to call your Representative repeatedly today --- All offices.

As a reminder to Rep. Matheson, you WILL be voted OUT of office this November if you vote for this bill.

Congress v. The Constitution

I have listed numerous quotes from members of Congress when asked where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to force citizens to purchase health care insurance.


The answers are astounding! And if one of these members belongs to you, I suggest you give them a call and tell them to actually READ the Constitution.


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At the U.S. Capitol on Tuesday, Dec. 22, CNSNews.com asked Sen. Brown D- Ohio: “Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for an individual health care mandate.”

Brown said: “The same part of the Constitution that allows us to have Medicare. When I hear people that think this is a constitutional issue, my first question to them is, ‘Do you want to repeal Medicare?’ And some people, politically, are so extreme in this country that they want to repeal Medicare, and I think they’re dead wrong.”


At the U.S. Capitol on Tuesday, Dec. 22, CNSNews.com asked Senator Lautenberg D-NJ, “Specifically where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals have health insurance?”

Lautenberg said, “I am not going to answer that,” and then walked away.


At the U.S. Capitol on Tuesday, Dec. 22, CNSNews.com asked Sen. McCaskill (D-Mo.), “Specifically where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals buy health insurance?”

McCaskill said: “Well the -- we have all kinds of places where the government has gotten involved with health care and mandating insurance. In most states, the government mandates the buying of car insurance, and I can assure everyone that if anything in this bill is unconstitutional, the Supreme Court will weigh in.” 


At the U.S. Capitol on Tuesday, CNSNews.com asked Begich D- Alaska: “Where specifically does the Constitution grant Congress the authority to make an individual health [insurance] mandate?”

Begich said: “It think it’s just more stall tactics by the Republicans on the issue of health care, providing health care for millions of Americans. It’s a shame that they use these procedures to continue to delay the process.”


CNSNews.com asked Senator Bernie Sanders I-VT: “Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for a health insurance mandate?”

Sanders, a self-described socialist, said: “Where in the Constitution? Probably the same place that comes Medicare and Medicaid and the CHIP Program and the Veterans Administration, and the health care programs that we’ve been doing for many, many decades.”  


At the Capitol on Tuesday, CNSNews.com asked Senator Conrad D-ND: “Could you specifically say where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to mandate that individuals get health insurance?”

Conrad said: “No, but I’ll refer you to the legal counsel for the Senate and they’re the ones that lead there as the full legal basis for the individual mandate -- and I assume it’s in the Commerce clause.” 


At the Capitol on Tuesday, CNSNews.com asked Sen. Feinstein D-CA: “Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority for an individual health insurance mandate?”

Feinstein said: “Well, I would assume it would be in the Commerce clause of the Constitution. That’s how Congress legislates all kinds of various programs.”


Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii) says he is “not aware” of the Constitution giving Congress the authority to make individuals purchase health insurance, as the health care bills in both the House and Senate require.

When CNSNews.com asked whether the Constitution gives Congress the authority to make Americans buy health insurance, Sen. Akaka said: “I’m not aware of that, let me put it that way. But what we’re trying to do is to provide for people who have needs and that’s where the accessibility comes in, and one of the goals that we’re trying to present here is to make it accessible.”

When asked if there was a specific part of the Constitution that gives Congress the authority to make people buy health insurance, Akaka said: “Not in particular with health insurance. It’s not covered in that respect. But in ways to help citizens in our country to live a good life, let me say it that way, is what we’re trying to do, and in this case, we’re trying to help them with their health.”


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At the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, Dec. 23, CNSNews.com asked Sen. Hutchison (R-Tex.), “Where in the Constitution do you think Congress is finding the authority to mandate that someone purchase health insurance?”

Senator Hutchison said:  “There is no place in the Constitution that allows this trampling of individual rights, and I am going to make a point of order that it tramples on the 10^th Amendment as well, the rights of states to regulate insurance. And, in my state, we have a self-insurance plan for state employees and teachers, and the federal government now has the right to intrude on that – and it’s not in the Constitution either.”